Realm: Sylvanas
Character (name, faction, level...): Akynam Alliance 110 rogue outlaw
Difficult mode of the instance in which you found this issue:
Complete description of your issue (do not forget to specify the issue, all conditions for making the issue to happen, and if the issue is related to a phase, specify the phase in which you found this issue): Every spell deals reduced dmg. For example run through that is supposed by a tooltip deal 443k damage, deals only 343k
same for other spells. This becomes a huge problem in pvp where outlaw dmg is by numbers alredy reduced my 50% and with this bug i deal absolutely no damage compared to other classes. Also energy regeneration sometimes feel weir, might be because maim gauche stop procing sometimes.
Steps for reproducing the issue: I think the bug itself come from the artifact weapon offhand. It sometimes not only visualy disapear but it cause the maim gauche not to proc and when i use dreadblades buff it many times appears only on the main hand sword.
not only outlaw, all rogue spec are nerf .....
same thing is taht assa and sub aswell are nerferd hard as assassination doing maybe 50% dmg
Well the pvp nerf is fine since rogue base dmg is crazy but its not the server nerfs. Its bellow that damage. SO you can imagine when i do 50% in pvp AND the bug that make me deal even more.
Priority Moved to High
status changed from resolved to waiting more informations
Assigned to antowkakwa
Did you consider armor? Class hall dummies has 20% reduction so it's legit dmg. Weap dissappear problem is only visual ,main gauche still procs and doing same dmg as intended.
And please be accurate with that 50% reduction ,spells ,formulas retail numbers (if possible)
Yes i have tested in on everything it doesnt matter what target it is on 6 combo points the damage never gets over 350k and that is far from what tooltip says and ofc using run through only as example, it applies for my entire damage output. Speaking about the 50% reduction that is i am asuming server nerf for rogue in pvp that i am aware off in pvp run through tooltip says something around 230k dmg on 6 combo points. Yes i have considered armor and classes like balance druids with incrased armor if we talk about pvp where i do 50% less dmg from nerfs than comes the bug that make me deal about 160k in PvP from my main finisher on 6 combo points and to balance druids i deal about 90k so basicly him using wild growth on negate all my dmg i deal to him and i consider that as a huge problem. About the main gauche i probably wasnt right but as for how high my mastery is saying it should proc about 50% i doubt its atleast 25% and that leads to constanly being out of energy. Makes Roll of The Bones rogue unplayable only option is Slice and Dice that atleast allow you to use your dreadblades without being forced to wait half of the buff duration for energy for single saber slash. I havent played retail outlaw so i dont know if that is supposed to be like that but i doubt it. Speaking of PvE i have no chance reaching 200k dps in for example raids mostly due to lack energy and the low dmg adds up aswell. So compared to every other class rogue is in a very bad state for either PvP or PvE. Considering the lower dmg it also takes away lot of value from your crits.
I kinda dont have time to compare all with the retail numbers so i am sorry about that. This like i said applies on all my spells to my entire dmg output. Also in the last update made by that i mean #26 sylvanas update there is writen run through was dealing too high damage and that it has been reduced but the damage is for couple months still the same, by that i mean still dealing lowered amount probably about the same % as before but i cant tell for sure i wasnt tracking it in such details ( ofcourse slightly going up according to my stats and gear upgrade)
Like i said i am aware of rogue pvp nerf because rogue normal damage is insane. If you need any confirmation any prove or screenshot obviously i can provide but just tell me specificly what you want from me.
Also i want to point out the numbers are unstable sometimes when i re-equip the weapon the numbers change to always different amount in the tooltip and the reduced damage is changing even without that. To same target and im talking without any damage buffs or ''equiped'' items procing, it just keep changing again i am talking about 6 combo points i always use that as my example just so i make it more clear but it doesnt matter how many combo points is used still.
When you mentioned the dummy having 20% damaged reduction you can count that the dmg it dealt according to the tooltip is more than 20%.
The whole point i am trying to make is that rogue is just not popular as i hear from everyone that the damage is bugged. If people manage to go raids premade battlegrounds or anything they will always much rather pick any other dps class over rogue cause of they know that her impact is very limited. If you look at battlegrounds you most likely never see rogue being even at the upper half in terms of damage. And i am talking rogue with ilvl around 850 on the other hand any other class have no problems overcoming this geared rogue in terms of dmg with their only 830 ilvl, PvE aswell. I have done many testing trying to keep up with other classes with my damage but it just takes so much effort to get close to them when they just use one rotation and im far behind. If you think this is fair well i guess i might just give up on rogue completly as i see everyone doing it.
Edit: When you mentioned the dummy having 20% damaged reduction you can count that the dmg it dealt according to the tooltip is less than 20%.*
Same thing is with subtlety. Tooltip says 420k and real dmg is like 300k for eviscerate on dummy. It's more than 20% reduction.
tooltips is not always correct, here is an exsample as a guardian druid. Pulverize = 340k tooltip, that is Damage
= 8.5 * AnimalWeaponDamage(true)
Result = (weaponDps + TotalAttackPower / 3.5) * weaponSpeed * TotalDamageMultiplier
that results in 220k pulverize hits... now tooltip says 340k, but tooltip is wrong, so do not always look at tooltip as if it should be the correct dmg, you are more than welcome to do the calculations on the spells you feel are doing to little dmg, and see what you come up with.
Well ok but let me just say again that doing 90k dmg (6 combo points) with your main finisher with 855 ilvl that i currently have in bg is not fair when there is marksmanship hunters doing around 1m damage with their aimed shot if it crits. All i am trying to say is so you should give us reason to play rogues. With almost full end game gear (possible on this server so far) i cant reach dps of 830 ilvl mage in raid ? How is that fair..... If its correct what you are saying than i am aware that rogue might need small buff because there would be no reason to play it compared to other classes. Everyone considering rogue as the worst class on the server sadly. And you can see time to time tickets or forum posts saying that the damage is just ridiculoussly low. Like i dont know but i got big gear upgrade now and instead of 478k run through deals 331k i cant seem to belive that is normal to be honest but maybe you are right about this one and if so please give rogues some love too and atleast make her able to even dmg of someone with 20 ilvls down....
Literaly everyone feel the struggle, ive seen many of these reports but it doesnt seem to have any attention if its not bug and the 50% pvp nerf is actualy intended please change: https://firestorm-servers.com/en/report/see_report/40202
https://firestorm-servers.com/en/report/see_report/38844
https://firestorm-servers.com/en/report/see_report/40377
First thing first, I assumed that main gauche didn't work before same as you guys. YET, when I go to dungeon with crowded mobs that one time, I open up blade fury all the way till the completion of dungeon and monitored my skills using recount. Guess what? Main Gauche actually deals damage; more than melee and blade fury. This indicates that Outlaw mastery proc with blade furry (cleaves attack). my mastery is amount same as yours, around 50%. Without turning on blade furry, the mastery is proc only 25% while with blade furry, is on 80% when comparing with main gauche total output with melee total output and 50% when comparing main gauche total output with blade furry total output. There's no problem with the main gauche. It only doesn't work as how you guys think it is.
Second, I have no comment of finisher deals damage too low (lower than it suppose too) as I can't statically calculate the rogue output minus the enemies' amour. But I can assure you that there's a way to make Outlaw's energy sustains and trigger pistol shot/blunderbuss (proc with crit) all over the time. Means that after first time clearing combo point (usually used on slice and dice), I have one combo point in hand, I used sabre slash (proc with crit) and get two combo points, this triggers free pistol shot with quick draw talents and get another two combo points. This fills up the five combo points. Use run through and the cycle continues again. Noticed that every skills are proc with crit to double the combo point amount. If you are like me, play the old combat rogue and knows how important to cap haste to sustain energy regen and increase attack speed, you will choose vigor, alacrity and slice and dice because this talents not only sustain your energy regen but also sustain your damage amount.
Who says Combat Rogue deals damage with finishing move? Combat rogue since forever, maintains damage with Melee Attack. Same case with Outlaws. The mastery;Main Gauche skill is still there, passive;Ruthless skill is still there, passive;Combat Potency is still there, Blade furry skill is still there and someone wants to ague with me that Outlaw isn't Combat? Well technically it isn't because it is an advance Combat Rogue (midrange melee). My advice is to cap haste first. make it so that your haste is at 18% at least, that is where your energy regen is around 15per second. Then, keeps all the crits. higher is better. If you guys are more insane like me, forget your artifact weapon. That weapon is bullshit. It doesn't follow the original combat rogue's philosophy. There's a synergy of a few of outlaws skills named; ruthless, combat potency, main gauche and blade furry with a combination of low attack speed on main hand and fast attack speed on off-hand aka dagger. If you ever see me in game, I'm one of the few who isn't using artifact weapon as much. I have test, even if my overall gear is differed by 10 between artifact set and sword and dagger set, the lower ilvl set is still keeping up the 'damage over time'.
Third, one things for sure that is bugging in this server for long while that totally makes rogue; especially outlaws trash. That is a few missing passive skill in skill book. The most important skill is passive;critical strikes. That is a level 1 spell - OMG! and additional of 5% critical chances and damage. Next, is passive;parry skill is missing from skill book. Ever wonder why Rogue is the first to die in dungeon? Now you know. That's not all, even the passive; detection and passive; detect trap spells are missing from the spell book. I even upgrade the detection skill with dirty trick book sold at shadow of hall's vendor. No, i cannot detect any invisible creatures. Then, fleeted foot and 'SAFE FALL' suppose to stack together but again, that spell is missing from skill book. I'm a Pandaren Rogue, spec in Outlaw but I die falling from hill? wtf!? Seriously, we has been cheated. I declare that rogue is ostracized in this server.
To clarify this has nothing to do with the ticket same as the response above:
Ehm no offense mate but 75% of what you said here is like competly random and makes no sense. I dont know whats the point writing all this into my ticket rather than some random outlaw thread on the forum. If you are telling me you are going mastery haste build and vigor that means you are doing it wrong. If you look at retail you never go vigor and you prior versatility>crit>haste>mastery. Thats the point i was trying to make because you are not supposed to have so low energy on such build like i do which is retail correct. I dont understand your veiw on the outlaw at all. You said no wonder rogue dies first in dungeon. If you are playing atleast half way correct you will never die with outlaw thats what makes her good and thats her survivability so i think you are doing something wrong. I doubt with vigor you can even do decent dmg as i tested it and dps is far from correct retail build that i am running. If you dont think combat rogue most dmg comes from finishing move you are clearly playing it wrong again, what do you think is your artifact weapon spell for...
Please dont write such random comments to anyones tickets, this is not a forum post. You neither said anything to confirm the issue everyone feels at the moment or neither argue againts it so i dont whats the point writing here. If you think doing 90k dmg with your main dmg spell if you play like normal outlaw player (actualy every class) is normal in pvp compared to other classes that hits 6 times more with thier spells i dont think you play pvp at all as you sound to me like some 810 ilvl guy that started doing dungeons and cant handle them. once again if you want to make argues go on forum do not use tickets for that.
Sorry if I can't make myself clear. Yes, Outlaw most damage skill over her total output is Run Through (finisher) attack. But with this skill alone, she can't never sustain damage. This is where melee (auto attack) comes into. I hope you can see where I'm going and what's my point now.
I never mention this in my comment above but versatility never worked on all classes except hunter in this server. Sorry, I cannot prove this but it's upon my friend's and my own observation. We may be wrong but we clearly do feel it that way.
Why energy regen in retain sustain? It is clearly related to the missing passive skills in rogue's skill book. That's critical strikes. Skill proc with crit gives one extra combo point. It means one or two less skill to use to fill in the combo meter which clearly save your energy consumption.
Now, you can see why my play style in this server isn't the same as retail's. Sorry again, for invading your thread. I'm trying to be nice here but, no one cares.
Like no offense but when i see your gear and if you are seriously using random sword and dagger instead of your artifact weapon you shouldnt be adding anything to this conversation... I am judging from a spot where you are close max gear and i play rated bgs againts ppl with about same end game gear and there is where the problems come and you can see the difference between all classes. I dont know if its correct but it says you have one honorable kill so that means you dont even pvp. Whats the point of saying all this when you have no clue.
also In between the eyes never crits in PvP, been playing since 1 week no matter the buffs with Roll the Bones you get at 45% crit, you won't ever crit
When fix this spec?
At least when fix dmg Run Through?
